Hi everyone,

Where can I find more info on getting started w/ racing? I've read a bunch of stuff on this site, but have not seen anything on the new(?) clubman racing class. I have a bunch of questions and if anyone can answer them, or point me in the right direction, that would be great. I have not been on the track since like 1995 at Summit Point in West Virginia, and then it was only for a Suzuki Endurance School. I have a 05 GSX-R600 (but would much rather have a TZ250, so if you know of one!), I'm doing a track day at Thill in April to get back into it... so, here are a few questions:

can you start racing at any point in the season?
what do I have to do to qualify for clubman?
what are the classes for clubman, or are all the bikes put together?
does my bike have to be stock?
does anyone want to trade a TZ 250 for a 600???!!!

I'll keep it at that for now, will ask the other 2 million questions later!

thanks for any and all help

Chad

Hi Chad,

The 2006 rulebook just went out in the mail this week, so that's why you haven't seen anything. If you click on the "Rules" link to the left, there is a 2006 changes document that includes all the new Clubman info.

For your questions:

You can start at any point in the season. Licenses are $100 before 1 July, $50 on or after 1 July.

To qualify for clubman you need to get a License and pass a New Racer School (NRS). See the "New Racers" link at left for all the details.

The classes for Clubman are Lightweight, Middleweight, and Heavyweight, and are groupings of all the other regular classes. Your GSX-R600 would be in Middleweight, and you would run with 750s, 1000 twins, and 250cc two-strokes (roughly speaking).

Your bike does not have to be stock, as Clubman draws from all the normal classes, including Superbike and Formula.

Good Luck!

Trevor

tlo wrote:Hi Chad,

The 2006 rulebook just went out in the mail this week, so that's why you haven't seen anything. If you click on the "Rules" link to the left, there is a 2006 changes document that includes all the new Clubman info.

For your questions:

You can start at any point in the season. Licenses are $100 before 1 July, $50 on or after 1 July.

To qualify for clubman you need to get a License and pass a New Racer School (NRS). See the "New Racers" link at left for all the details.

The classes for Clubman are Lightweight, Middleweight, and Heavyweight, and are groupings of all the other regular classes. Your GSX-R600 would be in Middleweight, and you would run with 750s, 1000 twins, and 250cc two-strokes (roughly speaking).

Your bike does not have to be stock, as Clubman draws from all the normal classes, including Superbike and Formula.

Good Luck!

Trevor

Hi Trevor,

What are you the qualifying times to enter "clubman" and what are the times to get you pulled off the track? I think it would help newbies they knew what maximum amount of time they can do before they are black-flagged.

----#13 CHANGES TO CLASSES SECTION 6.1-------------
6.1 CLASSES:
The following classes are recognized for competition at an AFM
Race Meet (Exhibition classes will be run at the discretion of the
Race Director and Board of Directors). Except for 6.1.7, these are
"Sunday" races as referenced in all sections of 2.3.11 and elsewhere.
Participation in every Sunday class must be from riders meeting
the lap time requirement for that particular class and track. These
times are defined as 115% of the average of the 3 fastest finishers
in that class in 2005. Maximum lap time requirements for AFM
classes shall be:
Buttonwillow Infineon Thunderhill
250 Production: 2:29 2:17 2.37
250 Superbike: 2:17 2:06 2.19
450 Production: 2:24 2:18 2.30
450 Superbike: 2:18 2:04 2.21
600 Production: 2:07 1:56 2:14
600 Superbike: 2:07 1:56 2:11
750 Production: 2:11 1:59 2:17
750 Superbike: 2:06 1:55 2:14
Open Production: 2:10 1:57 2:13
Open Superbike: 2:05 1:55 2.12
Open Grand Prix: 2:08 1:57 2:14

Thanks for the help, but I still need a 250GP bike!!

Chad

Classifieds on TZ250 Racing
http://www.tz250racing.com/

More Classiffieds on USGPRU
http://www.usgpru.net/

Some more on WERA
http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=12

Check out Rising Sun Cycles
http://www.rscycles.com/

or GP City moto
http://www.gpcmoto.com/

With all those resources you should be able to find something before the season starts. You still got a month to go.

Thanks again. Is it possable to be hooked before even seeing one? At first glance, it does not seem like there are a lot of clean used ones out there, but I'll keep on it. Found some new ones, but I'm guessing I'm better served learning on a used one, or at least my fiance would think so!

being a small community means you can ask around about certain bikes and get answers.

A new bike is expensive, but your getting a new bike where nothing needs replacement for at least 300 miles. Doing top ends isn't that bad. I think I was getting a full top end done for $200 - $250 for all parts.

A new bike is an expensive investment for a new 2-stroke racer. These are not for the faint at heart. Racing is an addiction (kind of like smoking or drinking). 2-stroke racing is more like crack or heroin addiction.

You may be better off looking into a 250 superbike. Its a little less work, and a little less investment. Plus it will get you into 2-stroke racing without needing to give you your life. Check out Aprilia RS250's or Honda NSR250's or Yamaha TZR 250's.

Thanks

What is your budget? I know of one being parted out in a month and another that is very clean, that was cared for by Chuck M.

A stock TZR has almost half the hp as a TZ. Once you start putting TZ bits on it to increase hp, you're gonna be moving your maintenance schedule closer to that of a TZ. I imagine the NSR is somewhat similar with kit parts. TZ top ends are about $200 also.

The costs compared to a 600 balance out or are cheaper. What you'll save on tires you'll spend on top ends. As you get faster, the delta gets smaller.


And yes, it is like crack or heroin.

NSR's dont share many parts with the RS so there is no NSR/RS hybreds like the TZ/TZR.

That being said, a stock NSR (as all other 2-stroke street bikes out of Japan) are limited to about 34 HP per JPN regulations.

NSR's are easy to derestict and it's not hard to get the HP to 60 HP with little mods, and not putting the maintenance schedule the same as an RS (or TZ). I have done full seasons on a single top end with an NSR (including track days between each race weekend). A TZ or RS (true GP bikes) require top ends every 300 miles or so, and cranks much more often then a 250 SB based bike.

An Aprilia RS that is near stock (or Aprilia cup stock) will last a good amount of time with top ends as well. Not many people run stock TZR's as they tend to turn em into TZ's in respect to the engine components.

Here is one for sale right now...

http://www.usgpru.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1965

$4500.00 for its not that bad. If the inside of the engine has been upkept as nice as the bike looks it would be a good starter.

To everyone who has replied, thanks for all the great info and help! Charles, that RS looks pretty nice. $4500 is nice too. So, here is where I stand, any advice is greatly appreciated.
I have a 05 GSX-R600, stock, and still making payments on it (I know, not smart racing a bike that I don't own outright, but that's the way it is). I briefly tried selling it on craigslist, but was informed that blue book was way less than what I owed on it! Figures. So, since I just opened a bicycle shop, I can't really go spend an extra $4500 on a bike + more for spares, bla, bla, bla...
I'd love to be able to sell the GSX-R and get the RS for example, or, and here is where I'd love some advice:

I'm guessing the cost of prepping my Suzuki would run somewhat close to the price of that RS. Bodywork, suspension tuning, fairing bracket, rearsets etc... That's not even including engine mods (which I don't even plan on touching for the first year).
How much longer do tires last on a 250?
How quickly can someone who is somewhat mechanically inclined learn to do the work on a 250 themselves??
Can I still gets parts for an RS, or any older 250 for that matter

Lastly, I would be a new racer, damn, I'm a new motorcycle rider for the most part, I've been the the track once and picked it up pretty quickly and qualified for a WERA race, but did not race...
I'm going to a 2 day beginner (yeah!!) track day in April and that is where I will see if I can pick it back up. I'm sure it can't be toooo much different from a 30+mph bicycle race. At least I'm good in traffic! We bump and push almost as much as Valentino and Biaggi

WHat do you think, prep the 600 and learn, then pick something for next year,
OR
Screw it! Get what I want to race now, and learn on what I really want to race. So, is 250 here to stay? Can I race in more than one class?

THanks guys

Chad

Chad,

Let me go to the last question first.

The 250 classes are pretty well attended classes, so I wouldn't see the AFM dropping then anytime soon. I think FIM/GP has planned for a phase out of the 250 GP class after 2010, so Honda and Yamaha (would be nice to see KTM put their 250 out on the market as well) will most likely be selling their 250's till then.

In the AFM a 250 GP bike can race in F-II (main class) and F-I (top runner in 250's was finishing on the podium in this class for most of last season). If your fast enough, you also can run in Formula Pacific.

You can prep the 600 for probably less then $4500.00 but you will end up with a track bike that won't get you near the podium. Your talking about one of the most competitive classes, and heavely attended grids in the AFM.

Part for the RS are available. Rising Sun, GPC moto, Red Line imports can all get you parts with no problems.

Learning to work on a 2-stroke is pretty easy. There is more then enough information on the web, and in print that most anyone can pick it up. You will also find a good amount of people with 2-strokes are willing to help you out.

As for what bike to use? Your on your own. I personally would sell the 600, and go with the 250. But that's cause I enjoy 2-strokes (I think it's cause I was dropped on my head a couple time as a kid). Others will tell you to race the 4-stroke. Most likely it's cause there lazy, and don't enjoy doing top ends every other weekend

Either way you will probably enjoy yourself more then one should be allowed, so you can't really go wrong.

Thanks again,

I'm looking for a TZ or an RS.

I guess I have until 2010 to get in as many runs as I can...

Chad

How much longer do tires last on a 250?

I used one set of mediums for 2 races. 1 set of softs for another 2 races with 30+ trackdays in between. And I bought one more set of softs for the last race. I still have the mediums and they look as new as the 2nd set of softs I have. But I'm not a fast guy. I'm sure the fast guys go through tires at the same rate as bigger bikes go through tires.


How quickly can someone who is somewhat mechanically inclined learn to do the work on a 250 themselves??

It's pretty easy if you're mechanically inclined. It helps if you have good notes on the bike you're buying. And the service manual is invaluable.


Can I still gets parts for an RS, or any older 250 for that matter

As Chas mentioned, parts are readily available. Yamaha's are a little easier, since you can get the parts through most Yamaha dealers. Mach 1 stocks a lot of the top end parts, which is nice and local.

2-strokes are a labor of love. One minute you're cursing, the next you're fawning.

Perhaps look at a 125. They're a little more affordable and even more inexpensive to run.